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Post by jkr on Mar 1, 2012 7:56:33 GMT -4
travis oldboy certainly NOT do i want this over by any means. as we chatted about this the other day i feel as you do a subtle change is NEEDED and should be addressed A.S.A.P. i told you my thoughts and they are very close to what your talking about. i personally would like to see the overlap on BOTH ends of the pro division. at least a half second on both ends. that way street cars could try pro and pro could try s/p. i would think right now street and pro is like restrictor plate racing in nascar, cars and drivers are capeble of more but held back by management. just my 2 cents..........
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Post by provega on Mar 1, 2012 10:07:33 GMT -4
Years ago in Maitland you could not have open headers or slicks in street class ,why not bring that back as that would help with the intimidating factor of the open headers on the car next to you.Not sure what the slick part would do as ET streets and drag radials and such are available .Also creating an overlap does not always fix the sandbagging problem but may just create more as it opens the doors to double entry while is good for revenue it may just give the opportunity to the seasoned racer that is on the time break bubble to run either or both for that matter and you have that car sandbagging again.The first thing a new racer wants to do is go fast ,lets face it that's likely how you got in the sport in the first place is because you are a speed freak so the chances of a racer that on its first weekend of racing goes out and runs a 13.30/13.40 lets say, trying to slow that car down is not very likely. Took me a long time to understand why someone would spend crazy amounts of money and then put a throttle stop on it to slow it down. I would think that most new racers would not get it either until they spent some time at the track and then they would be a seasoned racer also. Generally everyone wants to go faster ,that's how the classes evolve every year .I would think that the only racers on the bubble that would do this are seasoned racers as there is skill to be a sandbagger.This would not be your typical newbie,these guys would not know how to dial back a car and get on the breaks at the end the track,Most guys want to be at the top of the class for the mph charge so for the new guys at the 13.50/13.60 area would likely be content to stay away from the open headers and such of pro cars for awhile and eventually move up to pro typically at the end of a season when new power is found to chase that faster number that everyone wants.Hope this makes sense because none of it affects me but I remember being in this position before,just my long drawn out opinion.Don't be offended by the term "sandbaggers "its easier to say then "the guys on the brakes hard on the other end" ;D
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Post by SS10 on Mar 1, 2012 10:30:00 GMT -4
I'm all for the overlap in PRO and SPORTMANS but also there is alot of assumption that it is a free pass to go faster and that isn't so, the requirrements for safety still need to be addressed for the quicker ET, more so on the Pro overlap then the Sportmans as the Sportsman only needs a Snell approved helmet to go the quicker ET.
Pro requirres a rollbar with safety belts dated within 2 years and a fire jacket, Travis already has everything needed as his car has been that way for years, but others think that they can go faster and not be under the gun for the change, which isn't the truth and that is the point that I am trying to make, SAFETY ALWAYS NEEDS TO BE NUMBER ONE.
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Post by sixpack on Mar 1, 2012 12:10:20 GMT -4
Also creating an overlap does not always fix the sandbagging problem but may just create more as it opens the doors to double entry As far as I'm concerned sandbagging ( or dialing soft ) is not a problem at all. As a matter of fact it is a perfectly natural part of bracket racing. It's a common strategy used by most bracket racers on a regular basis. With out sandbagging, we would only have heads up racing. ;D The reason for the overlap is not to stop people from sandbagging, but to prevent people from being forced to sandbag when they don't want to. That's all.
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Post by sixpack on Mar 1, 2012 12:34:17 GMT -4
I'm all for the overlap in PRO and SPORTMANS but also there is alot of assumption that it is a free pass to go faster and that isn't so, the requirrements for safety still need to be addressed for the quicker ET, more so on the Pro overlap then the Sportmans as the Sportsman only needs a Snell approved helmet to go the quicker ET. Pro requirres a rollbar with safety belts dated within 2 years and a fire jacket, Travis already has everything needed as his car has been that way for years, but others think that they can go faster and not be under the gun for the change, which isn't the truth and that is the point that I am trying to make, SAFETY ALWAYS NEEDS TO BE NUMBER ONE. Sam is right...........Safety is the most important part ! I wasn't aware that some people actually think the safety rules get changed with just a class break change. So.......( For EVERYONE in PRO ) that is capable of running between 11:49 & 11:00 at any time through out the season..........please make sure ahead of time, that you meet the safety requirements for that ET to prevent getting in trouble.
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Post by Don @ Maritime Drag Racing on Mar 1, 2012 12:37:24 GMT -4
Another set of MPH photocells around the 1200 foot mark could actually show the amount of sandbagging. If you lose MPH at the 1320 as compared to the 1200' traps you're sandbagging - period. If it's a lot of MPH loss it means you're hard on the brakes. The difference in MPH displayed on both time cards will let the racers know their opponents a little better for the next time they meet. That could tighten things up on the top end.
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Post by mrgoodwrenchns on Mar 1, 2012 12:42:50 GMT -4
the only problem i have with an overlap as a still relatively new racer is the fact someone at the overlap can run both classes and gets the extra track time in the same car makes him tougher to beat as he doubles up on valuable seat time,makes it tough for newer guys who only get to race 4 or 5 times a year.i hated running the veterans in street when i started but now i know my car and hold my own heck i even got a pro to redlight me in the final a few years back and i had myshelf losing before i even lined up lol that day changed my whole outlook as i finally started seeing improvements in my driving.however when you are new no matter what the class racing veterans who double up on the classes its really fustrating at times as it seems you are at more of a disadvantage and this is possibly other reason we can't get newcomers.
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Post by provega on Mar 1, 2012 13:39:05 GMT -4
(sixpack wrote) "As far as I'm concerned sandbagging ( or dialing soft ) is not a problem at all"
My point wasn't that sandbagging is a problem ,it is "the hard on brakes cars" are the problem which are not the same cars that are dialing "soft".This is why most of this discussion was started likely two years ago about SAFETY on the other end.There is two places to win a race ,start and finish but when a guy is dialed so "soft " that his car lets out a puff of smoke on the other end it is definitely NOT safe.Dialing soft is done in thousands of a second sandbagging is dialing in tenths! The only way it gets to be heads up is when you have several cars running under the time break and all have to dial 13.50 and 11.00 and then pile on the brakes on the other end causing a SAFETY issue.
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Post by sixpack on Mar 1, 2012 13:40:28 GMT -4
the only problem i have with an overlap as a still relatively new racer is the fact someone at the overlap can run both classes and gets the extra track time in the same car makes him tougher to beat as he doubles up on valuable seat time,makes it tough for newer guys who only get to race 4 or 5 times a year.i hated running the veterans in street when i started but now i know my car and hold my own heck i even got a pro to redlight me in the final a few years back and i had myshelf losing before i even lined up lol that day changed my whole outlook as i finally started seeing improvements in my driving.however when you are new no matter what the class racing veterans who double up on the classes its really fustrating at times as it seems you are at more of a disadvantage and this is possibly other reason we can't get newcomers. Yes, I know what you are saying........It certainly can help you get the car dialed in by running in multiple classes. On the flip side........if the new racer happens to fall into the overlap zone and is willing to spend the extra coin, he or she can double their seat time as well. Also..... with 20 or so scheduled weekends of racing every season, even without the overlap, some racers can gain a lot more seat time compared to someone that only goes 4-5 times a year too. Unfortunately it costs a lot of money to gain that seat time. Another aspect that has not been discussed yet.......is whether we even allow people to double enter two classes.
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Post by sixpack on Mar 1, 2012 14:32:04 GMT -4
(sixpack wrote) "As far as I'm concerned sandbagging ( or dialing soft ) is not a problem at all" My point wasn't that sandbagging is a problem ,it is "the hard on brakes cars" are the problem which are not the same cars that are dialing "soft".This is why most of this discussion was started likely two years ago about SAFETY on the other end.There is two places to win a race ,start and finish but when a guy is dialed so "soft " that his car lets out a puff of smoke on the other end it is definitely NOT safe.Dialing soft is done in thousands of a second sandbagging is dialing in tenths! The only way it gets to be heads up is when you have several cars running under the time break and all have to dial 13.50 and 11.00 and then pile on the brakes on the other end causing a SAFETY issue. That's OK..............I agree with what your saying here. Except for the last sentence. So, my line of thinking is that the overlap system would actually give people (who don't want to slam the brakes) the option to enter a class were they don't HAVE to slam the brakes. Here is a real life example: Most of the season my car runs in the 11:50 - 11:70 range full out ! Not fast enough for S/Pro. But sometimes in the spring and fall with good air and a strong tail wind it has gone as fast as 11:26 ! Too fast for Pro......Talk about slamming on the brakes. With a 1/2 second overlap between the classes, there would be no need for me to slam the brakes anymore.
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