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Post by John Scott on Feb 19, 2013 17:52:47 GMT -4
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Post by Jeff Kempton on Feb 19, 2013 21:56:47 GMT -4
Basically the exact same combo as the '84 of Scott North's; except the '85's shipping weight is a little less. Despite that they both fit in AF/SA. If you like the challenge of a turbo car this one could be a lot of fun, and I'm sure Mr. North would be happy to share some tips with you. (His email address is at the bottom of the page) As stated on his info page, he holds the record while using a stock 75,000 mile engine, so the potential is certainly there to make this a fast and fun "dime rocket". The biggest challenge may be keeping the transaxle happy; I see he has a habit of breaking axles.
The fact that it's big, it's boxy, and it has the slicks up front should ensure that it'd be a crowd pleaser! Go for it!
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Post by John Scott on Feb 20, 2013 15:33:36 GMT -4
As far as I can tell, this car has two possible engines: 140hp 307 and a 105hp 350. I've been trying to find some info about these cars. Is it possible the 350 is a diesel? That is the only 350 I can find for the 85 Riviera, but I didn't think diesel was allowed.
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Post by Jeff Kempton on Feb 20, 2013 16:40:36 GMT -4
Sorry; my mistake. That's twice recently that I've posted a response without noticing all the details; I'll try to avoid it happening again! Because you posted Scott North's car as a comparison I assumed that the local car was also a turbo. I see now that it's not.
Here is what Wikipedia has to say about these cars:
"1979 saw the debut of the first front wheel drive Riviera on a trimmer, 114 in (2,900 mm) wheelbase, once again sharing its mechanical design and platform with the Cadillac Eldorado and Oldsmobile Toronado. The Olds 403 and Buick 350 were dropped, but the Olds 350 remained, as did a new turbocharged Buick V6 of 231 cu in (3.8 L) displacement with 185 hp (138 kW). The Riviera became Motor Trend's Car of the Year. Sales more than doubled, to 52,181 for 1979 and 48,621 for the very similar 1980 models.[22] 1981 saw the Turbo renamed T-Type and the demise of the 350 engine in favor of the Oldsmobile-built 307 cu in (5.03 L) with 140 hp (104 kW) (phased in during the 1980 MY). The standard engine was now Buick's 125 hp (93 kW) 252 cu in (4.13 L) V6, and a new option was an Oldsmobile diesel engine with a mere 105 hp (78 kW). offered through 1985."
The Classification Guide only shows the aforementioned turbo, the diesel, and a 307 Olds engine as options. Both gas combos are rated by NHRA at 240 horsepower, putting either combo in AF/SA, with an IHRA Index of 14.65. The NHRA Index is a lot quicker at 13.85, so because we use IHRA rules here you'd catch a significant break locally in trying to run the Index. The Olds 307 uses a Quadrajet 4 barrel but is factored fairly high, making it a challenge in NHRA but maybe OK locally. The turbo is by far the better combo, but trying to find the correct engine/turbo etc. to convert this car over would be very difficult.
If you're serious about the car and want to figure out if it could be made competitive on a budget with the 307, I'd recommend that you post that question in the Tech section of the Stock and Super Stock catagory of Classracer.com. I'm sure you'll get some experienced opinions there.
One final note: if the car's a diesel you should walk away; at least for use as a Stocker. The diesel wouldn't be worth the effort in my opinion.
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Post by John Scott on Feb 20, 2013 18:54:43 GMT -4
Thanks for the reply.
I haven't heard back from the guy yet to let me know what the engine is. How can you run a diesel engine in Stock Eliminator? Are you supposed to convert it to run on gasoline? If so, I wouldn't get involved in that. I'm assuming it's the 307. Where do you find the 240 hp? I only see 140 hp listed in 1985.
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Post by jkr on Feb 20, 2013 18:57:24 GMT -4
One final note: if the car's a diesel you should walk away; at least for use as a Stocker. The diesel is not in the Guide and conversion wouldn't be worth the effort.
it would take a brave man to build and race one of these cars, just like a mopar product. and not everyone wants a cookie cutter camaro or mustang. there is some potent buick stuff out there and this would be a cool, different ride for sure. right up there with a saturn............
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Post by Jeff Kempton on Feb 20, 2013 19:18:12 GMT -4
How can you run a diesel engine in Stock Eliminator? Are you supposed to convert it to run on gasoline? If so, I wouldn't get involved in that. I'm assuming it's the 307. Where do you find the 240 hp? I only see 140 hp listed in 1985. No, you can't just convert a diesel to run on gas and be legal; but the bare Olds diesel block is sought after by some Olds racers because it's stronger than the gas block. That only works for some applications and I won't get into it here, but it's another good question for Classracer if you're curious. All eligible combinations are listed in the NHRA Class Guide. Go to NHRA.com, and click on "NHRA Racer" at the top right. Then go halfway down the left side of the page. In the Tech section there are two titles; "Engine Blueprint Specifications" and "Stock Car Classification". These two sections are your bible for figuring out what can be raced; if it's not in there it's not eligible! Even if you find it in there you need to check that the info includes everything needed; we actually ran into one combo that was in there but didn't have all the required info listed to allow it to be built as a class car! That is very uncommon though. The Stock Car Classification section has columns with body styles down the left, and engine sizes/factory rated HP at the top of the other columns. At the bottom of each column is the NHRA rated HP for that engine. Note that the one marked with * is the Stock rating and ** is for Super Stock. The numbers in the middle of the columns refer to the pounds per horsepower for that engine and body style; use this with the rulebook Stock or Super Stock sections to determine what the "natural" class of the car is. A car can move up or down one class by adding/removing weight. If there is no factor in a space that means that engine combo was not available in that body style. Hope this helps explain the process somewhat! Surf around in the tables and you'll get used to using them.
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Post by John Scott on Feb 20, 2013 19:41:45 GMT -4
Oh OK, I see where you mean. I didn't notice that.
I have spent a lot of time looking at the guide...I know the basics. When I look at 1985 Buick, I do see a 350 that says it is diesel. No, I don't want to get into converting a diesel to run on gas...just saying.
Does the ** mean you could run SS/PA with this car?
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Post by Jeff Kempton on Feb 20, 2013 20:58:35 GMT -4
I have spent a lot of time looking at the guide...I know the basics. When I look at 1985 Buick, I do see a 350 that says it is diesel. No, I don't want to get into converting a diesel to run on gas...just saying. Does the ** mean you could run SS/PA with this car? Glad to know that you're familiar with the Guide. I got into detail on how to research a combo not just for you but also to explain it to anyone else reading this thread who may not be as familiar with it as you are. You are correct that the diesel combo is listed over on the left part of the page. The fact that there's a SS factor for that engine combo indicates that yes; you could theoretically run SS with a FWD Riviera, but considering the transaxle breakage problems already noted plus traction issues etc. I can't picture it being a successful venture. The SS factor is likely there only because that same engine is also run in mid-80's Cutlass bodies. Success in those cars is probably why the horsepower factor is fairly high.
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Post by Jeff Kempton on Feb 21, 2013 23:15:20 GMT -4
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